We sat down with Pavel Bains, the co-founder of Bluzelle - the decentralized database for the new internet. The digital media expert worked in the past with Disney, Microsoft, Warner Bros, DreamWorks and even Nintendo, and also has a background in business strategy and finance. The world of crypto combined everything he was interested in - economics, finance, science fiction, distributed computing - causing him to dive headfirst down the rabbit hole and create Bluzelle. 

Bains explained the crypto ecosystem, touched on the wild west of NFT’s (for those who are still trying to grasp the basics), and revealed how the world of gaming will completely transform people’s understanding of cryptocurrency. It’s safe to say that Pavel Bains pulled us down the crypto rabbit hole... 

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You can listen to the episode here: 

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Highlights from the episode: 

Pavel shares his thoughts on the following topics…

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The intersection of crypto and gaming - gaming will help educate about crypto: [12:09]

“Gaming will be the future. Gaming will help onboard users. The current gaming user experience in crypto is not good. So what we can do - build great content, give them a blockchain...People played games already. So, If they play games and now they can put it on crypto, they can stake it and earn extra yield. Oh, what's yield? Oh, that's from staking. What else can I stake? Tokens. Like it introduces all these concepts that are inherently in the game, which is almost going to teach them about crypto and the advantages. That's where I see gaming going and letting in that next wave of people to come in.”

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Behind the scenes of creating a game in the crypto-sphere [14:03]

“The first version will come out sometime in 2022 but starting this week and probably every week going forward is artwork game design. Certain elements of it we’ll start giving the community so then they can give us feedback to help us better develop this game in a proper way...this is one of the rad things about crypto. You launch a product and you continue building in real-time and getting feedback from the community and they're all vested as you're going through this experiment. So, typically when you develop a game, it's all done in stealth. And then all of a sudden you launch it and hope it's a success. In crypto, you expose them all the way, let them be involved in feedback, and build it in real-time. That’s probably one of crypto’s biggest killer features”

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What he’s most anxious about in the evolution of this technology: [24:19]

“On the gaming and game development side, they're new to it and trying to figure it all out at the same time. Like you've got this token element. Yeah, it's a virtual currency that you're used to, but it's actually tied to a blockchain. The blockchain has these assets. So I think the learning curve probably makes me the most nervous and that could cause delays or certain problems...but that’s the experiment of this entire thing”

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Creators and NFTs? [40:52]

“I don’t think creators need to be using NFTs - it's not a thing of like I have to put out an NFT. If it doesn't fit for you, the format you are using or that medium, then you don't really need to do it. Now, if I was an artist, graphic designer, into fashion, things like that, now I've got to pay attention because now a new format has come out that reflects what people like to visually see for that for the time being. However, when it comes to gaming - games should definitely look at NFTs. We can introduce these new game mechanics that introduces more fun and ownership because people have their assets.”

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Full Transcript: 

David Tintner: Hey everyone, we have a killer show for you today. We are here with Pavel Bains, the co-founder and CEO of Bluzelle. Pavel is living at the bleeding edge of technology, whether it's, uh, crypto, the creator economy, Pavel knows, exactly what everyone else doesn't know yet? So we are here today with Pavel

thank you for joining us. How's it going, Pavel? 

Pavel Bains: It's going well. Thanks David, for having me on here, been looking forward to this 

David Tintner: So, Pavel you are the co-founder and CEO of Bluzelle. And I would love to know what led you to, to, to start Bluzelle 

Pavel Bains: yeah, I mean, so my history [00:01:00] before was video games. So I used to work for Disney, uh, did projects that electronic arts, Microsoft Nintendo, uh, deals with Warner brothers.

So that's what I pretty much did all the time. Anything from studio management to business development. Uh, mergers and acquisitions and then, you know, got kind of tired and, you know, stumbled upon crypto in like 2015, uh, went down the rabbit hole like everybody else. And it was really the thing that drew me to it was, well, every thing that I was into is.

Political science, economics, finance science-fiction distributed computing. It's like, it was all combined into one thing and just went down that rabbit hole. So then that led me to meeting my partner, uh, my co-founder . And went full-time and like 2016. And then in 2017, it's like had the concept for Bluzelle where, uh, he came up with like, Hey, if future's going to web.

We need to, and everything's going to be built on it and these different layers. Well, it needs to be a decentralized [00:02:00] infrastructure and decentralized storage. And that's where, you know, the original concept of Bluzelle came from. 

David Tintner: So what brought you to make that leap? That things need to be, um, decently.

Pavel Bains: It wa well, it's interesting is so when we started Bluzelle, we didn't really fully know what we're going to do in crypto. And we're just doing projects and figuring out what went along. So we'd actually moved out to Singapore, uh, myself and Niraj part of the time. And fortunately, we ended up connecting with KPMG and some of the banks here, and they hired us to build out a KYC, KYC, know your customer.

So basically was an identity platform. Banks and using the blockchain and Ethereum to do it. So we built that out, did it, and while we did it, we're like, okay, we've authenticated that. But say, David is David and restored the files. And then near it said, well, those files themselves. They're still sitting in a centralized server that could go down, could get manipulated, could be stolen.

[00:03:00] Shouldn't the entire infrastructure, not just a blockchain, but the storage component also be decently. Uh, blockchain and that's kind of what that it was really doing that project. 

David Tintner: Very cool. So on a Devin to this a bunch, because in doing the research for the show, um, I started going down the rabbit hole of decentralized file storage and kind of looking into how things are done today and what are, I guess, the benefits and trade offs of the potential options.

Um, and please jump in as I, uh, am definitely a rookie in this area, but, but as I understand it, and I want to break this down for our listeners and basically when, um, something is, is, um, on the blockchain, the blockchain is essentially pointing to an address, right? And the point of the thing that's stored in the blockchain is the confirmation of where that address of that file would be.

You're saying, [00:04:00] is that okay? Cool. We've confirmed that the fire was supposed to be here. Um, maybe that's a server in someone's home. Maybe that's a Google drive. Maybe that's um, w wherever it could be, but you're saying that there's no, uh, security for that location itself. 

Pavel Bains: Very close. So what happens is let's just say, let's take, yeah.

So let's say you store a file and the blockchain approves that. Okay. Does it belongs to David. Right. But where does it actually sit? So most products are going to be like, okay, we're going to store it on a server at, you know, Google cloud, AWS, or even like something they rent out somewhere like on a server farm or a stack.

Now, if you want it to be duplicated or backup, you got to pay for that. Right. And if that one goes down, okay, we've got that second one. Or if there's an outage, Then, you know, you got to wait for it to come back online, um, with a decentralized version. What we're saying is, Hey, [00:05:00] put servers everywhere. But the servers we're using is going to be like, did you David at home with your computer sitting there?

And so instead of in one server, let's put them in lots of them around the world. No, there's no hierarchy. They're all kind of the same. And even if one goes down that it's instantly replicated everywhere. Our blockchain assures that that is the same file that always was there.

David Tintner: W when you say servers around the world, a server is a computer, right? So these are, um, computers that, uh, blues L owns. These are computers that ran, uh, personal PCs businesses. What are these. 

Pavel Bains: So some would be, uh, initially or some that we control, like through, you know, servers or clouds, but then we have a number of called validators or although running these servers or nodes that also sit out there.

Right? So the goal is as our, as our blockchain and our products get bigger and better, more outside people come in and it's less from us. 

David Tintner: [00:06:00] So there could be, let's say, um, people all over the world that are. Um, storing on their computer a is a, um, a copy of the original file. Is it a piece of the original file?

And then it's pulled back together. What are, what are they actually storing? 

Pavel Bains: Um, I guess they're all copies of the original file because the original file technically doesn't exist. It's just stored and all, but it's not pieces. So there's only really one file, but it's just replicated every. And so when you need to retrieve it and grab it, the network's going to be like, okay, for David's file of, you know, his pictures from his last honeymoon or whatnot vacation.

This is the closest note to it. Let's go grab it there instantaneously. 

David Tintner: Very cool. So what are some of the use cases for, um, The, this type of technology, like what are the types of files that people are saving? 

Pavel Bains: I would say now the best use cases NFTs, right? [00:07:00] So nonrefundable tokens, because you'll get this profile pic or an NFT.

Now you're storing it on a marketplace somewhere, or you store it yourself, but you don't know where it's at. It could be stored in just one single place. So yeah, the blockchain will say that David, you own this, you know, pep NFT, but if it gets lost or. You still own it. And the record is you're the owner, but there is no actual file to that name anymore.

So the goal is that that's the best use case that you got then. And you're like, Hey, I want it replicated and sent everywhere. That's authenticated. That belongs to me. It's there, but it's never going to go away. 

David Tintner: I think we need to, uh, I mean, that's, that's a pretty crazy topic you just touched on. I think that we need to kind of dive in deeper for listeners here that when you're owning an NFT, essentially, You're buying the, uh, let's say the certificate, if you will, that you own something, but you're not actually buying the thing itself, is that correct?[00:08:00] 

Pavel Bains: But you are buying it right? What I'm saying is if it's not, you got a painting at home, right on your wall. You have a certificate also that says you own it. If you accidentally burned down, Now what you don't actually have it anymore. Right? So in this one thing, the burning is that that server that it was stored on went away.

So you still got the certificate on the welcome that says this is yours, but the product only ceases to exist, 

David Tintner: Do we know today how common this problem is. Are there tons of people holding NFTs? Um, that the thing that their certificate, if you will says they own is no longer exists? 

Pavel Bains: No, I don't think that's happened, but it's the assurance that right now, I mean, centralized systems do work, right.

But we're talking in the long run. They can go down and it's more attacks come, but we would feel more. Why do we use Bitcoin and everything right. Or crypto. It's more sound, the security, the verification, anti-censorship all that type of stuff. [00:09:00] So it's only natural that these users would be like, well, I want my actual products also stored, verified in a way that's anti censored, or I know it's not going to go down same way.

So what I say, it's a massive problem. No, but is a risk out there yet. And is, are people going to be more comfortable having better secure measures? 

David Tintner: And it sounds like even if the problem is not super common in the case that it does happen, if you just paid a ton of money for something and, you know, even if there's a 0.01% chance of it happening, it's kind of a game over scenario for you.

Pavel Bains: If I can go to, if I can go to a storage layer, that's much easier. That's much secure, redundant and stays me and that future hassle, why wouldn't, uh, I'd want to do that. 

David Tintner: How does Bluzelle fit into the rest of the crypto ecosystem? It's a file storage layer. And what is it connecting to? 

Pavel Bains: Um, well, for us it's, I mean, [00:10:00] the core that we started with was the file storage layer.

Right. But what we've kind of evolved to over the past couple of months is going full circle. It's really weird. It's like you connect the dots backwards, right? So we did file store. Um, then in around may, we really want to focus in on that creator economy because we believe content is a future. And my background was from content.

And then as certain game mechanics in crypto startup proven out, uh, I'm not one of those game peop that believe a couple of years ago that crypto gaming is going to work, uh, coming from the games industry. What we do is we're okay. Not being the first people, but once you see something working, it's like, okay, can I innovate on that?

Can I do it better? And. You know, all the games that have been successful over the last 10 years, the free to play games, the mobile games, the social casual ones, they weren't the first ones, but once people figure it out, they're like, oh, I can do better than that one.

So we started, the goal is really funny that we wanted to go more content, support creators and things like that. Then over July, [00:11:00] August. So, okay. Gaming's working. If there is something there, this is my background. So I was able to assemble a small skunkworks team to start working on how. A new type of game look like on bluzelle and how we thought this happening was okay.

Gaming finance, and we can touch this later is going to be the future of how games are going to onboard the next billion users. I believe that will happen. So can I build killer applications like products in game? Yeah, I've done that in the past. I can work with people to do that.

They need storage and infrastructure. So those game assets need to. And then the third element would be the finance side of how do you leverage these game assets? Well, going to do, how do we fit into the whole group of saying our blockchain is built on cosmos and cosmos is designed to be interoperable that works with other cosmos base chains.

So you've heard of some, uh, you might've heard of like Tara, uh, cava, uh, all these systems like that and say that. If we focused on the gaming elements and the storage, and we can [00:12:00] leverage because of the cosmos ecosystem, other financial platforms we can actually aggregate some of those products into our game.

So fundamentally we kind of that change that is like a real clear focus is that gaming will be the future. Gaming will help onboard users. The current gaming user experience in crypto is not good. So what can we do - build great content, give them a blockchain that us super fast, like 10,000 transactions per second.

Leverage DFI protocols are out there because of cosmos, which we'll attached to and give the storage layer that protects their game assets that they want to acquire. 

David Tintner: W what do you mean gaming will help onboard users you onboard users to, to where 

Pavel Bains: to crypto. And what I mean by that is the crypto names and people here, we know the usability issues and we almost have to kind of take pride in the friction.

But if you think about what are we going get like my kids into [00:13:00] it. Well, they're yeah. They're peers. Gaming is a good way because, a good friend of mine, he had mentioned this, uh, and he's not a gamer, but he said what he saw the potential. He said, it's easier for. People played games already.

If they played games and now they can own their assets and, or their assets, if they put it on crypto, whether it's play to earn or they can stake it and earn extra yield on. Oh, what's yield?Oh, that's from staking. What else can I stake? Tokens that do defy. Like it introduces all these concepts that inherently in the game, which is almost going to teach them about crypto and the advantages.

He said that is much easier than us going to them, trying to rewire them and tell them the history of money that we've been doing for the last five to six. Because no one's that, that blows people's mind. It's easier to say, Hey, use this product. And I wasn't introduced to these cool things that you can do.

So that's where I see that gaming is kind of going to let that next wave of people to come in. 

David Tintner: It's basically the educational system for this new type of finance. 

Pavel Bains: That's right. 

David Tintner: So [00:14:00] you, uh, you recently built a game? 

Pavel Bains: Uh, I wouldn't say we built it. We're in the we're in the process of production of it. So, um, it was really, we designed the first stage of what kind of game would it were storyline, the team that would work on it, what type of game it would be. And we've just what we've done is we just announced it that, Hey, here's this game, here's the artwork.

Here's how it will be. Here's what you do expect. And now we're in production. So the first version will come out, you know, sometime in. Uh, 20, 22, but starting this week and probably every week going forward is artwork game design. Certain elements of it will start giving the community cause so then they can give us feedback and, uh, you know, be able to develop this game in a proper way.

David Tintner: That's really interesting. Is that a typical for, for game development to kind of involve the community so closely in the production? 

Pavel Bains: no, this is one of the rad [00:15:00] things about, crypto, right? I mean, you launch a product and you're building in real time and getting feedback from the community and they're all vested as you're going through this experiment.

So typically when you do a games it's oh yeah. Okay. We're gonna work on this game. Could be anywhere from six months to, let's say three years, it's all done in stealth. And then all of a sudden you launch it and hope they come in in crypto. It's like, tell them what. Expose them all the way, let them be involved in feedback, um, and build it in real time.

And it's, it's an amazing thing to do. I think that's, that's probably one of crypto's biggest killer features. 

David Tintner: So, the game, the building, is a play to earn the game. What does that actually mean? 

Pavel Bains: I mean the easiest way, it's like you're at the casino slot machines, right? You're playing slot machines are designed that Hey, every so often you're getting some money back. So you're putting back in. So, you know, people would say like, Hey, sign up the slides for like four hours, but only lasts like 30 bucks.

But it was fun because they're getting enough feedback to keep playing [00:16:00] and going on. So what this is, as you're doing elements of the game, We're earning transaction fees, right? Because you're doing transactions, selling products, things like that. And then parts of that is going actually back to the player to earn.

So it's like they enter the game, they're doing things. The ones that are more successful are actually generating a portion of that revenue right back to them. And with that, it can lead to more newer, creative things like David, if we know what your performances and how much. Maybe later on because you stake, we could, or something with like, Hey, we can lend against that.

Like, this is where the whole game finance comes in is like, just play to earn games or good killer app to bring people in, they evolve. But now based on your performance or your work ability or your skill level, that could be like, you know, your credit score in the new crypto world. 

David Tintner: It's really cool.

Basically To think about the game is just kind of this layer that sits on top of the [00:17:00] currency or the token with, I guess, the goal of the game and everyone who's playing the game or anyone who owns the, the currency has a stake in wanting the gaming layer to be successful, because as you said, the more successful the game is the more transactions are happening and more transactions that are happening, the more volume and essentially there's correlation between transactions and the worth of the currency.

Right? Correct. So this is a really, uh, a really cool concept. I think that, um, You're we're discussing here that the game is a layer on top of the currency , to incentivize more movement more of the currency itself. 

Pavel Bains: I think it's really fascinating, uh, where just like everything in crypto and.

Peter and just kind of come out. A couple of models have shown that itself would probably evolve how that currency and token use. But that's the great thing about this space, right? Take a little bit, start using it. Adapt, evolve, and keep. 

David Tintner: And so you mentioned [00:18:00] that you, um, you kind of waited a bit to see if this was going to catch on you.

Weren't the, the earliest adopter of, uh, crypto gaming. What are some of the more well-known projects, that did hit a big, that start to think that this is going to be huge? 

Pavel Bains: Um, it was really ACCE, right? They proved out the play to earn game mechanic. Right? Hey, Is it doing stuff?

Is it perfect when no game ever is right and fresh? They're the first groundbreakers right. And people were saying, Hey, it's, it's, it's a grind of a game. You're not having it as much fun. Why should I like, you know, but it's working. So now what you do is what game developers do is they take those and saying, how can I tweak it?

How can I make it a bit better and make my own version of it? And that's, that was really, it it's like once you saw that there was an audience and something was working, okay, let's try something with that. And that was really. 

David Tintner: Uh, what were the things that you think could be optimized from some of the earlier projects and done differently now in your game?

Pavel Bains: I think the fun [00:19:00] factor could be improved on, right. You don't want a game to be a grind that I'm just sitting there, grinding away all day for hours, just to play, to earn, uh, you want to have that fun fighter, especially if you're going for that fortnight. Right. 14 and up is better be fun.

Uh, and then the other one that could be is, um, and we're working on that is the token Nomics of actually where the demand of it is actually increasing the price, which is increasing the barrier to entry to get into the game. And it's really costly to do it. So the balancing of that has to come into play of, uh, it's high enough that people are do it, and you can make some money, but you don't want it to go out of control.

Well, I've got a it's friction now. 

David Tintner: Okay. What do you mean? But the barrier entry to play the game is so high that's because you have to buy some of the token in order to enter into, in order to buy the smallest amount of the token it's that you need for the game it's already so expensive. 

Pavel Bains: Yeah. So let's take, actually, for example, I'm going to make it the most simplest [00:20:00] way is to enter the game and play.

You have to have these ACCE characters now that actually characters cause a set amount of. And you can only buy them with your pack C token. Well, the ACCE token demand has made it go higher and higher. So that has made the Ethereum prices and gaseous have actually made the price of getting an Axion starting the game higher, where it'd be like five, $600.

Well, I can buy a PlayStation for $500. Right. 

David Tintner: Well, yeah. Yeah. So, so what can you do to combat that? If, uh, if demand does go up of the token, how can you, can you just lower the prices of characters? When did that kind of ruined the game for the people who've already bought them at the higher prices? 

Pavel Bains: Yeah. I don't know how X season they've got their own ways that they're working on it, but for us now entering it, we can say like, okay, what are those problems that happened?

What can we do to balance that out? So that doesn't happen and how can we hedge or offset it. And that's part of the token Nomics that are being designed. 

David Tintner: Do you see, um, [00:21:00] each kind of game that comes out, built on this, in this paradigm using its own. Um, token, or own currency, or do you see the, the tokens transferring between the games 

Pavel Bains: that I don't know yet?

That's, you know, to take one way or another, it would probably be not the right approach, right? Like right now it's like, Hey, you obviously want your own token and that's still. But maybe that acid area token can be used somewhere else. And with interoperability, cross bridges, uh, who knows, right. That's, that's probably one of the new experiments or a wild frontier for it.

David Tintner: But today it looks like the trend is that each project is kind of having its own new token. Right. Yeah. And you mentioned that that's um, do you, that was, that was kind of like you said, it like an obvious thing, like you obviously want your own token. Why is that? Why is that such an like an obvious benefit?

Because it just to an outsider, I'm thinking, well, you [00:22:00] know what, if no one wants my token, what if there's no demand, it's not worth anything. Maybe I should start with a token that already has demand and increases the ease of use, because let's say people are already holding Ethereum. For example, let's play the game on Ethereum.

Why was it, you know, such an obvious thing that no, you should start your own token. 

Pavel Bains: Games right now in game currency and their own all the time. Right? And if you have your own token, you can actually dictate what can be done with that. If you need to increase the supply, if you want to burn it and reduce it, you have all that control to balance out the game.

So in front of the being a game and having your own token, it actually is better for balancing because you have control over that. I mean, we all don't want to say, but you've got control of that money supply to make sure that the game is still. 

David Tintner: What kind of, um, I guess checks are put in place to, as you mentioned, like, if, if the game producer has control over the money supply, how can the [00:23:00] users of the game, um, kind of buy into the idea that the game is not just going to do something unfair or silly with the money supply?

Pavel Bains: Uh, I mean, short term, it'll probably be the trust factor if I just want to just unlock a whole bunch of our treasury tokens and put them on the market, who's stopping me from doing it other than trust in the team and doing the right thing.

Right. So I think that's a deterrent, uh, right there, uh, for that second is, as you move a lot of these probably treasuries into doubts, it could be just voted on by the, uh, the, the group, right. The community that actually you're supporting the game. Game's not getting fun. Let's put up a proposal that's, you know, buyback or decrease the money supply so we can burn them or let's increase it because it needs to solve this problem.

David Tintner: Okay. Okay. So there's, um, protocols in place that can move the decision-making through this distributed way, rather than the centralized game producer or publisher making all the decisions in a, [00:24:00] you know, in a. 

Pavel Bains: Correct. 

David Tintner: That's cool. Very cool. Um, what are, I mean, this is such a new world, and I think that things are moving really quickly.

What are some of the things that you're most anxious about or worried about in the evolution of, of, of this technology? 

Pavel Bains: Wow. What would I be nervous of in now in terms of crypto in general, or let's say on game finance and, you know, content now being on it? 

David Tintner: Yeah, I think, I think both are fair game. 

Pavel Bains: Uh, Okay. It's really hard. Cause NFTs have proven that it's cross-culture and it's bringing demand. Um, I think having, I mean, obviously Ethereum was a big thing is scalability, but now other layer ones are coming along that might solve all those usability challenges and they will have its place. And these other blockchains will have theirs.

Um, I think [00:25:00] let's say in the gaming side and game developers that we have, that we're working with, they're new to it and trying to figure it all out at the same time. Like you've got this token element. Yeah. It's a currency virtual currency that you're used to, but it's actually tied to a blockchain.

The blockchain has these assets. So I think the learning curve probably makes me the most nervous and that could cause delays or certain problems because yes, things have been proven out that. But they haven't proven out like, okay, what else can come in and throw a wrench and the whole thing.

And that's part of the, I guess, experiment of this entire thing that we're in. 

David Tintner: And yeah, you mentioned before how, um, games are, are, um, being used as this kind of educational tool right so there's a lot for people to learn and they don't know exactly how to, to start doing something.

Um,

what do you think are, um, some of the ways that, content creators should be using NFTs or distributed, file sharing that they just let's say [00:26:00] you're a YouTube or a podcast or. Why should this be on your radar? And why should you be, you'd be thinking about this technology. 

Pavel Bains: I mean, it depends, I don't think the YouTube or potentially should. To me NFTs right now the stuff that works is art , or maybe art based that represents, the culture.

Right? So it's not a thing of like I have to put outan NFT, or I have to do this. Um, if it doesn't fit for you, that format or that medium, then you don't really need to do it. Now, if I was a artist graphic designer into fashion, things like that, now I've got to pay attention because now a new format has come out that reflects what people like to visually see for that for the time being.

 Now go to something like gaming, you know, games should look at it like. We can introduce this new game mechanics that introduces more fun and ownership because people have their assets. So maybe we should pay attention to it because that next fortnight crowd that's playing it.

They might just switch over because they're already used to virtual currency buying their [00:27:00] skins. Now they're like, wait, I can play this game. Yep. Eventually I'll have the same graphics and engine and speed and the same talent building a fortnight style game, and then say, I'm going to go there because that's actually more fun and I get to keep all my stuff.

David Tintner: Okay. Okay. Yeah. So, the customers for Bluzelle should be, game publishers of, um, other future games or will the end customer always be the user that is buying the token? 

Pavel Bains: Yeah, my plan would be that, Hey, we launched our first game that proves out all the mechanics of what we set in our ecosystem, killer application game.

It's fun. You can store it on a de-centralized storage, that's out there. So that benefits our nodes and keeps that coming up. So everything connects basically what we've built, nothing new. We're just adding a consumer application on top of it. So that works. And then it was like, oh, we can do because it's already connected to all these other defy protocols on call.

It takes advantage of [00:28:00] that. So that completes that trifecta people like, wow, if I'm watching a game, maybe I should just go to Bluzelle and have, all I need to do is build the killer app and then they'll take care of everything else on that side. So that, so my goal would be that as we have one game, that's awesome.

Cause what proves that out and then we just onboard, uh, everything else. I don't know if you're familiar in the gaming space like steam. Okay. Right. Steam made by valve. They did the same thing. They've got steam, which is there takes care of everything of the platform for distribution collecting money, the basics, but then they also built their own IP on top of it, which is, you know, left for dead team fortress portal.

They make great games. So that's how we kind of see this unfolding. 

David Tintner: Okay. Okay. So steam is a competitor or the competitor for Bluzelle then. 

Pavel Bains: No, because they're not in crypto, right? They're in traditional gaming. I'm saying they're a good analogy that they're giving the backend if they make their own [00:29:00] games.

But if you and I we're great game developers, we can go in there and we're launching it on steam. 

David Tintner: But let's say that if I, if I'm a game developer, um, crypto is, is. The tool, not necessarily the outcome, right? Like it's one of the tools I could use to make a profitable game or to make my game fun or to onboard users or make it engaging.

Um, I assume that if, um, crypto games continue to prove that this is the best tool for making games profitable, then more and more companies and platforms will go in the direction of, of using crypto as well.

Pavel Bains: Yeah, potentially. I don't think it's that easy. Like when you have people always have this fallacy that they think that, okay, you know, all these guys will spend the money and do it. And they've got bigger resources. What they forget is that the end of the day, these companies are still run by people and people have vested interest of their own project, their own doubts, their own insecurities.

And whether they want us to convince everybody down [00:30:00] the line, up the line or down the line to take out what they perceive as. So that stops it from there. So I'm never worried about like, well, EA could do this or Supercell. It's like, yeah, I know how big companies are and how to sell it in. I mean, like I said, five years ago in Singapore, we built four and a half years ago, we built a know your identity system for the banks.

They never went to production with it and they, they're not even close to. So you can do the, you can verbally say that we're looking at this space and we're keeping our tabs on. I know how long it takes. I have a thing that can operate out of fear or operator being fearless. So

I choose to be fearless. Yeah. 

David Tintner: I love that. So, uh, so in Q1, 2022, you guys are launching the game, uh, since on the roadmap, uh, for blue. 

Pavel Bains: Really that's the focus. It's put that game out. [00:31:00] Do the upgrade to the newest version of cosmos, which is called Stargate. So at same time, that one side of the team is working on the game.

Our game development team, the tech team is, uh, working on the migration to Stargate and, um, tidying up, you know, firming up our storage layer as well. And then once we unlock start. Then that opens us up to all those other cosmos chains to do all the DPI protocols that we want to do. So that's really the next three months plan.

David Tintner: Yeah. Okay. Well, very cool. Uh it's it definitely feels like you're onto something. Really powerful. And as you explained, the potential is there for, for this to be something that, um, creates a new paradigm in, in, in the world.

Um, Pavel before we, before we sign off here, anything, um, anything, uh, you'd like to leave our listeners with, where can they find you? What should they be watching out for? 

Pavel Bains: Yeah, I mean the best place is, uh, [00:32:00] Twitter is I'm at Pavel Baines. Uh, for myself personally, if you go to Bluzelle at Bluzelle HQ.

 You'll get all the information and you can follow the link to either go to our discord or telegram. Awesome. Yeah, I think we, I think we're up to like 73, almost 75,000, uh, Twitter follower for Bluzelle. So I think the game product is really connecting with people.

They understand it and the clear path of what I said, killer product killer application we can deliver, we've got the blockchain to support it. We can tap into and we have the storage layer already. So it's kind of like, all right, let's make it happen now. 

David Tintner: Very cool. Well, we are rooting for you and definitely looking forward to see, uh, how things progress and, uh, and excited to play the game.

So thanks a lot for joining us. 

Pavel Bains: Thanks. David,